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  #11  
Old December 26th, 2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Midnight Marauder View Post
That's wrong too. Iceland is mostly religious with 75% of the population belonging to the state church!

Look at the chart!
Oh please.

Iceland is just as atheist as any other NE country. You might as well claim 99.9% of Americans are biblethumpers because y'all swear allegiance under god.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 12:33 PM
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Well at least the chicks tend to be cute.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 12:41 PM
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Well at least the chicks tend to be cute.
Bjork was always cute to me, but she seems batshit crazy.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 03:01 PM
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Oh please.

Iceland is just as atheist as any other NE country. You might as well claim 99.9% of Americans are biblethumpers because y'all swear allegiance under god.
Nonsense.

In iceland you either have to join the church and pay the dues, or not join and pay the Church's University the dues. 75% of the icelandic population is a member of the Lutheran Church - the state run and supported church. (Or it is really the church, that runs the state?)

Here, you don't have to join any church or pay any dues to any church. Ever.

Remember the meter was "They are one of the most Atheist countries on earth" and clearly, they are not.
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Old December 26th, 2013, 04:01 PM
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Nonsense.

In iceland you either have to join the church and pay the dues, or not join and pay the Church's University the dues. 75% of the icelandic population is a member of the Lutheran Church - the state run and supported church. (Or it is really the church, that runs the state?)

Here, you don't have to join any church or pay any dues to any church. Ever.

Remember the meter was "They are one of the most Atheist countries on earth" and clearly, they are not.
You make those points as if they meant jack.

Just like here, there used to be a state church on Iceland. You belonged by being born. It's still traditional to go there for baptisms, weddings and funerals, all of which are entirely bereft of any religious meaning and just a way to stroke your cultural belonging and ethnic group identity. You can opt out of membership but not out of the tax the state collects on the Church's behalf because it administers old churches classified as national cultural memorials and all the graveyards - yes, even newly arrived frothing-at-the-mouth islamofascist Somalis pay those church dues if they pay taxes at all. This belonging to and paying for the state church - which, for generations, has been nothing but a state bureaucracy - has just about nothing to do with religion, one way or the other. This is the state of all Northern European Protestant State Churches. In our case, our former Archbishop, before he retired (because, you know, it's just a government job), was fond of shocking fellow church leaders from backward cultures by confessing to his personal atheism.

You point to that 75% figure. Do you know what it actually means? It means 75% of Icelanders choose to profess pride in nation and country by affirming the traditions of their ancestors. It means absolutely jack about their religious inclinations.

In fact, if I had to guess, I would probably agree to the notion that Iceland is one of the most atheist countries on Earth. It's a Nordic country, and we mostly ditched all that several generations ago.

tl:dr - those numbers don't measure what you think they do.
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  #16  
Old December 26th, 2013, 07:46 PM
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You make those points as if they meant jack.

Just like here, there used to be a state church on Iceland. You belonged by being born. It's still traditional to go there for baptisms, weddings and funerals, all of which are entirely bereft of any religious meaning and just a way to stroke your cultural belonging and ethnic group identity. You can opt out of membership but not out of the tax the state collects on the Church's behalf because it administers old churches classified as national cultural memorials and all the graveyards - yes, even newly arrived frothing-at-the-mouth islamofascist Somalis pay those church dues if they pay taxes at all. This belonging to and paying for the state church - which, for generations, has been nothing but a state bureaucracy - has just about nothing to do with religion, one way or the other. This is the state of all Northern European Protestant State Churches. In our case, our former Archbishop, before he retired (because, you know, it's just a government job), was fond of shocking fellow church leaders from backward cultures by confessing to his personal atheism.

You point to that 75% figure. Do you know what it actually means? It means 75% of Icelanders choose to profess pride in nation and country by affirming the traditions of their ancestors. It means absolutely jack about their religious inclinations.

In fact, if I had to guess, I would probably agree to the notion that Iceland is one of the most atheist countries on Earth. It's a Nordic country, and we mostly ditched all that several generations ago.

tl:dr - those numbers don't measure what you think they do.
Points taken BUT.... Nothing here backs up the original meter. Which was no more than a assumption I'm sure, and which the 75% figure would come as much of a shock to the Dumbass as the rest of what I showed him about the great Icelandic constitution did.

We have zero proof they are atheistic at all, but ample proof they are not.
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  #17  
Old December 26th, 2013, 10:18 PM
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I guess my mental block is, you seem to be asking me to believe that a large percentage of the 245,000+ Lutheran Church members are actually Atheists, but they just go along to get along and let the state take their money, then pay fealty to the church, all that.

That's too sheepish for me to wrap my mind around, goes completely against human nature.

You have a population of 320,000 and 75% of them are members of the Lutheran Church, and I am supposed to believe it's "one of the most Atheist countries on earth." That's a tough sell pal.
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Old December 27th, 2013, 06:00 AM
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I guess my mental block is, you seem to be asking me to believe that a large percentage of the 245,000+ Lutheran Church members are actually Atheists, but they just go along to get along and let the state take their money, then pay fealty to the church, all that.
Yes. And they don't pay "fealty to the church". They pay for the upkeep of cultural and historical memorials and the tending and administration of graveyards. We all assume that if they outsourced that to the regular state bureaucracy it would become more expensive, less efficient, and you couldn't cremate aunt Hildegard because unions would be on strike.

They do good work, and if they also ramble about Jesus before empty pews each Sunday, that's their problem, not mine. Any regular state bureaucracy spends way more on discrimination seminars, international aid programs and general socialism, which, objectively speaking, is a lot worse.

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That's too sheepish for me to wrap my mind around, goes completely against human nature.

You have a population of 320,000 and 75% of them are members of the Lutheran Church, and I am supposed to believe it's "one of the most Atheist countries on earth." That's a tough sell pal.
Heh. The cultural matrix is entirely different. In my upset over where my tax monies go, the poor dribble that goes toward some frock preaching before a scattering of senior citizens at some Alzheimer's Home comes so far down the list I don't even see it. I promise to be upset about it and feel like a fleeced sheep the day we're not paying billions to import Somali, Arab and Afghani terrorists in their hundreds of thousands, spend billions to bail out Greeks and Spaniards too lazy to work after 55, or provide cradle to grave welfare to our own welfare queens junkies.

And believe it. I just looked at the wiki page you linked to - we're down 67,5% registered State Church Lutherans, a difference from the Icelandic situation easily explained by our suicidal Mohammedan import. So... does this mean the vast majority of Swedes are eager believes? Ha. Ha ha! That's so funny its hilarious. This is the country to which the Soviets sent no less than three big official delegations to in the 1950s and 1960s to try to figure out how we had managed to "liberate the people from the oppression of superstition" so well, which they couldn't manage at home, despite brutal Stalinist oppression of believers.
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  #19  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:59 AM
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Yes. And they don't pay "fealty to the church". They pay for the upkeep of cultural and historical memorials and the tending and administration of graveyards. We all assume that if they outsourced that to the regular state bureaucracy it would become more expensive, less efficient, and you couldn't cremate aunt Hildegard because unions would be on strike.

They do good work, and if they also ramble about Jesus before empty pews each Sunday, that's their problem, not mine. Any regular state bureaucracy spends way more on discrimination seminars, international aid programs and general socialism, which, objectively speaking, is a lot worse.



Heh. The cultural matrix is entirely different. In my upset over where my tax monies go, the poor dribble that goes toward some frock preaching before a scattering of senior citizens at some Alzheimer's Home comes so far down the list I don't even see it. I promise to be upset about it and feel like a fleeced sheep the day we're not paying billions to import Somali, Arab and Afghani terrorists in their hundreds of thousands, spend billions to bail out Greeks and Spaniards too lazy to work after 55, or provide cradle to grave welfare to our own welfare queens junkies.

And believe it. I just looked at the wiki page you linked to - we're down 67,5% registered State Church Lutherans, a difference from the Icelandic situation easily explained by our suicidal Mohammedan import. So... does this mean the vast majority of Swedes are eager believes? Ha. Ha ha! That's so funny its hilarious. This is the country to which the Soviets sent no less than three big official delegations to in the 1950s and 1960s to try to figure out how we had managed to "liberate the people from the oppression of superstition" so well, which they couldn't manage at home, despite brutal Stalinist oppression of believers.
Not too sure about Sweden but apparently Islam is outlawed in Iceland per their Constitution and standing laws! As is, immigration - they simply don't let anyone in!
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Old December 28th, 2013, 06:22 AM
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Last time I was on Iceland - 2007, I think - they not only had Mohammedans, but even a mosque in Reykjavik. I was there, in the Sun Tsu frame of mind. The numbers are very modest to be sure, and your average Icelander is consequently every bit as naive about it as were mainland Scandinavians in the 1970s. Iceland's immigration regulations are the same as the other Nordic countries', btw, by treaty.
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