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  #61  
Old February 11th, 2013, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by moomin View Post
What is this? Formal proof in formal logics? I mean, are you really contending that perhaps it isn't murder and might be genocide instead? Well... fine. Genocide it is.
If you came in here and posted that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews I would not argue with you on that. That would be the most technical of technicalities. It is a far different situation from abortion, where there is settled law protecting the right for a woman to participate in the act.

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But if the morals of the act are akin to murder - or genocide, if you prefer - personally I don't really give a fig about whether they conform with some arbitrary legal standard for such or not. The issue here is that if we come to the conclusion that fetuses are in fact some sort of proto-humans and do have a right to life, then the implications of current policies are staggering.
The problem here is multifaceted. First, we have to establish that the fetus is a human being and therefore protected as any other life. If we do that, what then do we do for example with adults who suffer from some trauma that renders them incapable of sustaining life without the aid of a machine to help them perform involuntary functions. Would pulling the plug then become illegal based on our new, ultra broad definition of life? Certainly a mother could never be allowed to make such a decision for a child who has been injured. After all, we would then have legally determined that she is incapable of making such decisions for the child because the Government knows better. I'm often curious about what other decisions these "Conservatives" who beg for government intervention between mother and "baby" want turned over to the otherwise too large and encroaching federal Government who all of the sudden is here to protect us.

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Certainly comparing it to cancer, or some parasite, or whatever feminist theme-du-jour isn't helpful to anyone who even pretends to take the issue seriously.
How does one discuss the issue of abortion without such comparison? WHen the two are truly so closely tied that cells from a tumor can be used instead of cells from a fetus in medical research, then there is a very close scientific comparison. When both are a growth inside a person and the one is almost always unwanted and nobody is arguing that a woman should be forced to allow the tumor to carry on unmolested, isn't there a natural comparison to a case where the fetus is unwanted and someone wants to force her to treat it differently?
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  #62  
Old February 11th, 2013, 11:49 AM
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I think we derailed the thread lol this is why I try not to talk abortion in threads not about abortion. It is one of those things you can't change me in. I am dead set against my wife ever getting a abortion and yes it is murder legal or not. Would I make it illegal? Yes ..... Mostly because it was made law by judicial fiat.
There are two very different things there. I am with you right until the part that comes after dead set against the wife getting an abortion. I don't want another child, so my girlfriend and I have tailored our behavior to prevent that from happening. But I do not feel that I have the right to make that decision for someone else.

Whenever discussing this with Conservatives, I wonder why we don't have our own version of Planned Parenthood yet. The abortion discussion gets tricky because some people factor God and having to someday answer to him into the equation. Now let's assume for a second that he does exist and he will some day ask you what you did to stop these abortions. When you say that you voted every two years on the pro life issue, I doubt he would be impressed. But what if you could tell him that you started an organization that worked to make a difference on the individual level? Your group gave counseling to girls who wanted abortions, and connected parents who wanted to adopt with girls who didn't want the child. You used charitable donations to offer the mother free child delivery services, and counseling to help her through the tough time. You had volunteers standing by who could provide free day care for the teen moms who wanted to keep the child but didn't think they could. That might stand out in a crowd of people who all say they voted for Romney, don't you think? That would be making a real difference.
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